Modelers Library

ON-LINE DISCUSSION FORUMS

1250scale Message Board:  http://members.boardhost.com/1250scale/

Topics relate to small scale ship modeling, general naval, history, etc. Open forum.

Steelnavy Message Board: www.members.boardhost.com/Warship/

Topics cover large scale ship modeling (1/700 scale and larger), general naval history, etc. Open forum. Focus is on naval ships from 1860 to present

Dockside: www.members7.boardhost.com/Dockside/

The UK's 1200 scale message board

The Ship Model Forum: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/index.php

The discussion forum of Timothy Dike's Model Warships.com web site. Posts are open to view but login is required to post.

Japanese Ships and Navy Message Board:

http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=754b16c688024f1bd9af5c036931ec81&board=5.0

A gold mine of Japanese naval expertise, primarily concerning WWII period. Login required.

German Navy Forum:  bismarck-class-forum.dk

English language forum for German naval subjects, mainly WWII. Registration and login required.

Warship Projects Discussion Board:  http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/forum/86-warship-projects/

Never-built warships of all nations. Login required.

Marine Forum: forummarine.forumactif.com/

The French ship forum. Login required.

Dutch Fleet: www.dutchfleet.net/

The Dutch Navy forum. Login required.

Betasom: www.betasom.it/

Italian Navy forum (in Italian, though English questions are answered). Login required.

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WEB SITES

1250 Scale.com: http://www.1250scale.com/

The main source of information for the small scale ship model community in the U.S.
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Muenchner Rundbrief: http://muenchner-rundbrief.xobor.de/

Successor to the classic Hamburger Rundbrief, it's German language counterpart of 1250 Scale.com.
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RELATED WEB SITES OF INTEREST:

International Journal of Naval History: www.ijnhonline.org

Model Warships.com (Timothy Dike): www.modelwarships.com

Nautical Research Guild: www.thenrg.org

Researcher at Large (Terry White): www.researcheratlarge.com

Wiking Ship Models (Manfred Shuett): www.wiking-schiffsmodelle.de
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PRODUCING THE MODELS

Several years ago, Dave Mosley of Cruise Line Models partnered with George Elder of Morning Sunshine Models to produce a small number of models, one of which was the never-built battleship HMS Lion. Collector Bruce Gordon compiled the production process, which can be followed in the following link to the Model Warships.com site:

Producing the Lion

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MODELING MATERIALS

BRASS WIRE, ROD, BAR STOCK

Detail Associates of San Luis Obispo, CA, is the main source for fine brass wire (.006" diameter and above) and other metal shapes useful for hobbyists. They do not have their own web site but their products are available from most model railroad supply outlets. Try Walthers Model Railroad Mall (www.walthers.com) for these and other products.
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DECALS

Hawk Graphics has shaded USN hull numbers in 1/1250 scale (Hawk Graphics). Gwylan Models produces deck markings for USN WWII Essex and Independence class carriers and aircraft insignia for a variety of nationalities (Gwylan Models). Starfighter Decals offers USN post WWII carrier deck patterns for Essex/SCB, Forrestal, Enterprise and Nimitz classes (Starfighter Decals). Stefan Karpinski of 1:1250 Decals offers container decals for hundreds of shipping and transport lines that make all those colored boxes on container ships come alive; custom work available on request (www.1-1250-decals.jimdo.com).

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DISPLAY CASES

Custom Display Cases offers a variety of acrylic wall mounted and desk top cases designed for model trains that are suitable for ship collections. Available through mail order only (Custom Display Cases). Ron Baluch of Grandpa's Cabinets specializes in custom oak and plexiglass display cases for all sizes of models (Grandpa's Cabinets).
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FLAGS

Langton produces a range of British, French, Spanish, U.S., Confederate, Russian, Dutch, Danish and EIC flags suitable for their range of sailing ships (Langton). Most flags can be produced by copying, reducing and printing materials available on the Internet. Two good web sites for historical and contemporary flags are Flags of the World and War Flags.
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MAGNIFICATION AIDS

Craftoptics of Madison, WI, has developed telescopic glasses that modelers may find useful (Craft Optics). An article can be found at Craft Optics article.
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PAINTS & BRUSHES

Color Conversion Chart: Paint4models has developed a conversion chart that matches Federal Standard paint numbers with the most popular paint brands (Color Conversion Chart) Humbrol remains the paint of choice for many model builders, particularly in the UK and Europe, even though it is available worldwide. Its high quality enamels and acrylics come in a wide range of colors (Humbrol). Snyder & Short Enterprises led the way in researching and defining the palette of camouflage colors used by today's ship modelers. Randy Short has both the Colourcoats range of paints and the Snyder & Short color chips on which they are based (a must-have for all modelers) on his Shipcamouflage.com web site (Shipcamouflage.com). Testors has been a major paint source for US modelers for years. Unfortunately, their Pollyscale and Model Master lines no longer produce their range of naval colors, though many other military acrylics and enamels are still available (Testors). White Ensign Models stocks the Colourcoats range of WWII (and some WWI and modern) naval paints based on the Snyder & Short color chips (WEM).
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PAPER MODELS

Currell Graphics web site offers paper models of a variety of subjects that can be printed out for free. Among these are several different versions of the liners Titanic, Olympic and Britannic (Currell Graphics).
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PARTS & COMPONENTS

Waterline Ships (Martin Brown) offers an extensive range of 1/1200 scale fittings as well as spare parts for Triang models (Waterline Ships).
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PLASTICS

Evergreen Scale Models is the main source of styrene plastic sheets, rods, strips and forms used for masters, scratchbuilds and conversions. Available at most hobby stores (Evergreen Scale Models).
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PHOTOETCH

Fifer Hobby Supply of Las Cruces, NM, is a good mail order source for N-scale model railroading supplies. Their photoetch frets of fences make good oar banks for galleys (Fifer Hobby Supply). Gwylan Models offers photoetch upgrades for Hobby Boss plastic kits (Gwylan Models).

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MODELING TECHNIQUES

AIRBRUSHING (from Steelnavy/1250 MB)

Posted by Paul on 9/7/2010

I've been using my Paasche #1 for at least 30 years now, but I still sometimes get it wrong. I gave up on enamels about 20 years ago and have used acrylics ever since (except for Dullcote which I use to finish the job). While enamels are easier to airbrush as they tend not to clog the brush, I find that acrylics are more forgiving, and when I want to brush them on, rather than spraying, they are easier to use and blend better with the airbrushed sections without leaving any visible brush strokes. They are also much easier to clean up. On the negative side, acrylics are harder to airbrush on. They tend to clog the tip if too thick and tend to lump up over time in their original jar. If your paint has lumps or bits which have accumulated in the jar, use a fine strainer when pouring paint into the airbrush cup. The strainer will pick up the bits and can easily be cleaned with soap and hot water. If mixed too thin acrylics will go on runny. So air brushing with them takes a lot of practice. If your paint is drying while in the air, then one or two factors are at work: first you are spraying too far from the model, so that the paint is actually drying before it hits the model, and/or second, the ambient air is too warm. Better to spray at night or when it's cooler.

You should have an exhaust fan regardless of whether or not you are using acrylics or enamels. I have neverused extenders and see no need to use them. If your paint is the consistency of skimmed milk it should work fine. If you find that the paint is still clogging the nozzle, try backing the needle out just slightly or opening the end cap just a bit. that will increase the flow.

Most critical is cleaning of the airbrush. You should clean it thoroughly after each use. Any residual paint whatsoever, no matter how slight, is likely to interfere with the operation of the brush. Merely blowing water or solvent through after use is not sufficient. I always disassemble mine, cleaning out all parts with pipe cleaners and ensuring that there is no paint or other film in brush.

I have no intention of replacing my airbrush. Paasche's are good, reliable tools, and getting something else won't guarantee results. It's the operator, not the brush that makes it work right.

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Posted by John Youngerman on 9/7/2010

I have been using a Paasche single action for many years and find it works great. You might think about (1) not thinning the acrylic paints as much as you do, or using denatured alcohol with or instead of water; (2) buying a 12" fan and setting it up so it blows behind you and ventilates the room; (3) using enamels such as Model Master in the USA or your own favorites if in Europe, and thinning with lacquer thinner instead of mineral spirits or paint thinner--sprays better, dries really quickly, results are beautiful. Just toss away the thinned paint after use--don't return it to the bottle/tin. I find that I use so little paint and have so little overspray that I have rarely had a problem using enamels this way. I sometimes mask and spray the camo, sometimes brush it, but always spray the "base color" coat. Use clear flat after painting (Testors Dullcoat is what I use) to give the model an overall flat tone. If you are careful, you can even spray enamel over an acrylic base coat. I have brushed enamel over acrylic and had no problem. And of course you certainly can use acrylic over an enamel base coat. I don't recommend retarders. Very difficult to get amount right. And who wants a wet mess for hours?

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CLEANING OLD METAL CASTINGS (from Steelnavy/1250 MB)

Posted by Al Fisheron 7/8/2010

Those of us who also restore toy soldiers are very familiar with this problem. Your inital instinct is good . . . wash with soap and water. Then soak in vinegar for an hour or so, rinse really well, dunk in mineral oil (e,g., baby oil) and let dry before priming.

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CLEANING ACRYLIC DISPLAY CASES (from Ship Model Forum)

by rbaluch123 Tue Jul 06, 2010

I had a few questions recently about cleaning the acrylic I use on the custom display cases I build for modelers, and wanted to let all know who might not know what I would recommend. I use Novus, #1 Plastic Clean & Shine just like window cleaner, which I would never recommend. Spray it on and wipe with a soft cotton diaper like material till the surface is clean and dry. This also helps to eliminate dust collection since it has an anti static property. Just my thoughts and it works great for me. Thanks all, Ron, http://www.grandpascabinets.com

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DECAL APPLICATION (from Ship Model Forum)

by Timmy C Fri Jul 09, 2010

1. clear gloss coat on your model (so that the transparent edges of your decal won't be as apparent)
2. apply decal
3. clear flat coat (to seal in the decal and give the model the proper flatness)

Voila! That's it in a nutshell.

As for applying the decals themselves, it differs, but it usually involves wetting the backing paper and decal thoroughly and then placing it on a towel or something and waiting 20 seconds or so until the decal is easily movable on top of the backing paper. Once that's done, move the decal and backing paper to where you want the decal to be placed, and then slide the decal onto the model from the backing paper. If the decal needs to be repositioned, wet your finger or put a drop of water over the decal.

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"LEAD ROT" TREATMENT (from 1250scale)

Posted by GHE on 12/11/2010

The key is to use proper safety equipment because the lead oxide particles are very toxic and easy to stir up. A vaccum with very fine filters is the first step -- but it has to have the finest filters possible and these will become contaminated after the procedure. Some folks try to save the models by removing them from the wooden bases and washing them in a vinegar solution -- although I would surmise a mild base solution might be as effective.  Try not to stir up the white rot by scraping or sanding it off. I suspect one could use a toothbrush on the white rot areas WHILE the models are completely submerged in a mild acid solution, but once the rot is so bad that paint is flaking one wonders if it is already to late. Once all the rot is removed, a coat of sealant, such as an auto primer can be used to cover the metal and perhaps keep the rot at bay. But you have to find a means of long-term storage that is gentle. I prefer glass shelves or acrylic cases.

If you see white dust/powder starting to get into the air during the fix -- just discard the models. I am sure they can be handled by a place that deals with used metal, and I know how hard it is to dispose of art. But here we have definite health issues at play, and you are better served to either buy old sets that are free of lead rot, or to get new models that use much more durable alloys.
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PAINT REMOVAL FROM MODELS (from Steelnavy/1250 MB)

Posted by Mike Werneron 5/18/2010

I've been successful using Pine Sol and a toothbrush. Let it sit a little bit before brushing.

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Posted by Roger Dawson on 12/19/2010

Neptun uses a water-based paint these days.

The general rule with models is to use an inorganic stripper on plastics (including resin) - one containing sodium hydroxide (caustic soda), read the label on your chosen poison, and an organic stripper on metal ships (Nitromors or one containing methylene chloride).

Sodium hyroxide dissolves skin and animal fats, methylene chloride is a systemic poison and creates havoc with the environment when it goes down the drain.

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Posted by Dave Willcoks on 1/16/2011

For the models that paint stripper wont touch i use Break Fluid which gives very good results against all paints used on metal model ships. Remember it is corrosive so needs to be handle with care, I use a large coffee jar to hold the fluid and submerge the model on the end of a bit of string checking occationally to see how its lifting.

The paint tends to lift as one and once fully released the model can be lifted up and left for the liquid to drain off.

Once drained,most of the paint can be pulled of using tweezers. Wash the model in white spirit to remove any lingering brake fluid and leave to dry. Any paint left can be picked of using various tools, watch makers screw driver set are good for this task.

When the model is fully back to bare metal if its a kit the model should fall apart so glue can be removed the model reassembled etc.

With both kit and one piece model it is best to wash again in white spirit before repainting to insure all traces of brake fluid have been removed.

This method is not for the faint hearted and great care has to be taken and should only be used as a last resort. Remember to wear gloves and goggles at all times when using chemicals. Also you cant tip Brake Fluid down the drain so once its past its usefullness it has to be disposed of responsibly.

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RIGGING (from Steelnavy MB)

Posted by Bob Cicconion August 22, 2010

Whenever you're rigging a ship- particularly an older, pre-dreadnought, you need to look at as many photos as you can to get an idea of the various rigging patterns that a given ship had during its service life. I generally Google the ship name and look under "Images" and you can generally find a bunch of good photos and also sites that have a lot of useful info on a particular ship. One problem, however, is that you can have 5 photos of a ship, and the rigging could be slightly different in all five, due to changes in equipment, rebuilds, modifications, the year the photo was taken, etc. The only thing you can do is to be as accurate as possible, keeping in mind that no one can actually tell you that you are wrong about your choices because of the reasons listed above. My personal belief is that the overall impression is more important than 100% technical accuracy. If you actually rig a ship with every single wire that was present, you'll 1) go crazy, and 2) wind up with a ship that may look overwhelmed by the rigging. I try to put on the minimum amount of rigging while still trying to make the ship look like it's rigged correctly.

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STRETCHED SPRUE (from Ship Model Forum)

by JIM BAUMANN Wed Oct 01, 2008

1. Making stretched Sprue

This is a simple process that can yield enormous quantities of supremely fine modelmaking material-completely free!

Traditionally one would hold a piece of sprue over a candle and pull apart slowly.
For rigging this has the disadvantage that it often results in uneven thickness and can contain small lumps. This is because as the sprue is stretched one side cools-and the other then stretches-this unevenness is reflected in the final result.

It is also important to use 'good' sprue.

I have for years been slowly melting down the runners and parts of a black moulded Airfix HMS Victory for standing rigging--and the brown plastic spars of a wrecked Revell Cutty Sark...

The raw material for stretched sprue does not have to be sprue-it can also be the actual plastic parts

When making stretched Sprue I recommend doing so in a room that is ventilated by a very gentle draft - ideally adjacent to workbench- the byproduct of smoke or smuts that can occur when heating styrene should be removed by the ventilating breeze-not the stretched sprue produced form the bench!!

My favourite method is to hold the sprue in my left hand-and the lighter in my right hand.

Light the sprue by holding the flame to the SIDE of the sprue piece flame

--allowing it to just catch light

Drop the lighter on the bench, change hands whilst blowing the flame out and dab the molten end of the sprue onto the far end of a piece of white smooth card( I steady the card on the bench using my left hand)

Initially for the first 2 inches( 50 mm) or so pull gently until the desired diameter is reached

Once the correct gauge has been reached( within a split second) pull away swiftly as far as your arm can reach

Stretched Sprue is free- so make as much as you can use in a given rigging session

It can be made thick or thin to choice

2. Preparing to rig with stretched sprue

Rigging a 1/700 modelship is a tricky thing to photo-document effectively. The following is in the main a text description.

Tools required for successful sprue rigging:

1 Fine tweezers- parallel at the ends-all sharp edges polished to round using very very fine 'flour' abrasive paper-very light pressure action

2 Fine tweezers- as above- but more pressure required- gives better feel when in delicate situations-prevents the tweezers 'sliding' out of grasp

3 Fine tweezers, as above but cranked at ends; ideal for threading in between tripod mast legs and existing strands of rigging without damage

4 Sharpened cocktail sticks- use these for application of the cement- unlike pieces of wire these can be operated under perfect control - without flexing or springiness- and thereby not damaging the delicate rigging that may be adjacent to the piece of rigging being installed

5 Gas lighter- with controllable flame height

6 Revell Proffessional liquid polystyrene cement- this has in my experience offered the best compromise so far with liquid poly adhesives- not so thin that it evaporates too quickly-not so thick as to leave blobs

7 Plentiful supply of sharp blades. Knifes are a personal choice-essential is only that they are sharp- blunt knife edges crush sprue- and distort it before use

8 Flat 'stamp collectors' type of tweezers- again has all edges reduced to soft radii by polishing- ideal for the application of very thin longitudinal horizontal ( antennae) sprue runs, where the weight( really!) of the sprue hanging over the edges of conventional narrow tweezers could kink the sprue piece

3. Application of stretched sprue rigging to ship

Essential preparation...When constructing the model substitute plastic or resin masts and yard arms with metal replacements.
Rigging places cumulative loads on masts and yards-these can distort and pull out of alignment plastic masts.

Place a drop of the Revell liquid poly cement on a flat surface.
I use old CD's or DVD's as my glue pallete. I use a fresh pool ( 3 drops or so) of glue for each end of a piece of rigging; space and adequate supply of glue is important!

I rig midships outwards, lower rigging first working upwards. This generally prevents problems with access at the closing stages of rigging.

On the ship that is being used here as the example- HMS Scylla- the signal halyards terminate next to the flag lockers at the aft end of the lower bridge.
Select an over-length piece of tan sprue for running rigging, hold in tweezers, dip one end into fresh pool of glue; the sprue will start to melt and from a small ball.
Apply the 'ball end' to the LOWER end of the signal halyard position. Holding the model at a suitable angle, rest the sprue 'halyard' on to the chosen yard.
Make a new pool of glue. Dip cocktail stick in glue and apply a tiny drop onto the chosen position on the yard; and using tweezers PUSH-not pull the sprue onto the droplet of glue- it will grab immediately.

Using the same cocktail stick, dipped in a fresh pool of glue, apply the stick onto the yard to the side of the sprue; it will melt and kink,- remove the cocktail stick-complete with the waste sprue.
You should now have a clean attachment- with no odd ends or blobs.

On this model I applied small blobs of WHITE Glue( PVA/wood glue) to the underside of the yard to simulate the pulley-blocks for the signal halyards; ergo I needed to apply tan sprue to EACH side of the blobs- halyards go up as well as down!

Do not worry unduly about getting it taut or straight...

The same procedures apply to all aspects of rigging standing rigging, braces and shrouds etc.

Once one side of the yards have been rigged-it is time to tension the rigging !

Many modellers have their pet techniques for this, ranging from dental hot wax tools to soldering irons to lighting a match and using the dying heat from the extinguished match...
I have no experience of the dental wax tool-so cannot comment.
The soldering iron has the disadvantage that the heat radiates in all directions- including where one may not wish to have heat!!
The match method has the inherent disadvantage that it is an inconsistent source- ie it gets colder unpredictably.

I use smoke... generated by Incense ( Joss) sticks in chosen aroma-sandal wood, apple etc etc!

Smoke is a directional source- ie heat rises- as does smoke. To get the smoke to pass across the chosen piece(s) of rigging the model must be held ABOVE the smoke....

For the smoke to rise vertically in a straight line we must eliminate all air movement in the room.

Take frequent breaks and ventilat at short intervals.

By inclining the model at different angles to the smoke source rigging tensioning can be carried out precisely on individual strands of rigging.

Note I am holding the model above me-so that I can see the rigging silhouetted against the white ceiling-and can thereby tune the smoke line to my chosen piece of rigging

This is easy with all 1/700 models- holding the 1/350 resin Roma Battleship above my head was more challenging!!

Attaching vertical lines to horizontal antennas should only be done using Matt varnish as an adhesive-otherwise the longitudinal will melt and snap if poly cement is used...

If it is desired to have the longitudinals sag gently- as in real life; here is a cunning plan!!

All models made of plastic/resin expand as they get warmer. To try and create the above effect we need to make the model longer.!!

I heat the modelling/rigging room to a temperature that is way above that where the model is usually displayed; rig the longitudinals, and tension them to be straight-with the model and its base warm.

When the model cools to normal room temperature an even gentle sag will be visible!

Especially effective in 1/700 square rigged model ships

Lines that split into a 2:1 purchase via a pulley-block-such as on sailing ship braces, can be easily simulated by setting up first one line, then a small dab of white glue-allow to set. add the second line , attach to the white glue using the sprue-dipped-in-liquid poly -as before. The fume will soften the initial line allowing the 'pulley' to fall square between the two lines

Stretched sprue can also be used for 'structural' rigging- where it is collectively load bearing, such as on this SSZ Scout airship on my 1/700 HMS Furious 1917

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TOOLS (from Ship Model Forum) by sgtryan13 ? Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:26 am A couple simple tools that have really helped me are:

Small size nail clippers
nail or "cuticle" scissors
sanding sticks of various grits
squadron putty for seams
plain old white glue for PE
micro sol and micro set decal solvents
future floor polish for a great gloss coat for decals and sealing paint

More on the expensive side but a must have in my book are

Airbrush and compressor
Dremel rotary tool with various attachments

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by NukeMM ? Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:45 am

Here are the tools that I use most often........

The latest additions have been MISSION MODELS Micro "Chisel", MICRO MARK Micro "Knife", and the mini-file set with the red handles. The in-grown toenail scissors allows for cutting rigging close to the attachment points as does the small fingernail clippers which also come in handy for clipping small brass rod and nipping sprue remains from small parts

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WATER EFFECTS (from Ship Model Forum)

by JIM BAUMANN Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:24 am

Here is a list of water making techniques:

A good grounding is to be found here:

http://www.steelnavy.com/WavePatterns.htm

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thereafter making the stuff....

Jeff Herne http://www.modelwarships.com/features/h ... _water.htm

Hanchang Kuo viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37641

Jim Baumann viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37223; viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37406

Carl Musselman http://www.modelwarships.com/features/h ... ature.html

Rainer Michalek http://www.modelwarships.com/features/h ... index.html

Dominic Banton viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38284

Phil Reeder http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/inde ... opic=39041

Kostas Katseas viewtopic.php?f=59&t=34699&p=228855&hilit=water#p228855

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MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVES

This page contains extracts from various ship modeling message boards that may be of interest to the small ship modeler and collector. Content has been edited to preserve the essential information conveyed in each message posting. See the sub-menu directory for specific subject categories. Postings are arranged alphabetically by country (where possible). The postings shown on these pages have been taken from the following Message Boards:

Steelnavy.com       ModelWarships.com        Dockside        j-aircraft.com        Warship Projects Discussion Board       SMML

All postings contain the author's name, but contact information has been omitted.

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COLORS & CAMOUFLAGE

British Carrier Deck Markings (HMS Ark Royal)

by iangazeley, August 21, 2010 (Steelnavy):

There are several different sets of flight deck markings and some of these varied over the life of the ship.

1. The central taxiing/take-off guide line, running the entire length of the deck was yellow (seemingly for the entire life of the ship). This is often not visible in photos that have been printed from orthochromatic film (which show the yellow as dark grey and often indistinguishable from the Admiralty Dark Grey of the deck). It is possible that the section forward of the wind-break was white, as in some photos only this section is visible, but I think these photos show a steam line rather than deck markings.

2. The port and starboard deck park guide lines, that start just aft of the rear lift and extend to mid-ships (and are in roughly the same position on the deck as the bow accelerators). These do not appear to be painted during 1938 and early 1939, but were definitely present by December 1939. These were also yellow early War, but may have changed to white later.

3. Two circular deck markings were carried. The extreme aft circular marking was carried just forward of the rear 0.5” deck-edge machine gun platforms and was a solid circle. The forward one, roughly in line with the S3/P3 gun platforms, was a dotted circle. In 1938/9 these were definitely white. Both circles were present in the spring of 1939, when her air group was photographed by Charles E. Brown using ortho film and can be picked out clearly against the three parallel yellow deck markings (which are dark grey in this series of photos). By December 1939 they were yellow and can be seen clearly in the aerial photo of Ark Royal at Montevideo (again using ortho film). I believe that neither of these was in use by the time the ship reached the Mediterranean in July 1940.

4. Between commissioning and December 1939, just aft of the centre of each lift there is a white solid line. These seem to extend for about 30’ (the length of one Swordfish) and were presumably used for centring aircraft on the approach to the lift. These are not present in June 1940 and I’m not sure about whether they were used after this date.

5. Forward of the lifts in 1938/9 there were two white dotted lines (positioned about one third from the edge of the lifts). These extend about the same distance as the solid line aft and were presumably to guide aircraft leaving the lifts. December 1939 these were solid lines. I’m not sure if these were present at all in 1940/41.

6. The outside extreme edge of each of the lifts was painted yellow. The extreme deck edge around the lift appears to have been white. I think these markings were retained in 1940/41. In 1938/9 there was a dotted white line running through the centre of the lift. By the time the ship had reached the Mediterranean, these dotted lines had been replaced by two parallel lines about 6’ from the edge of the lift (I think in white).

7. A large reverse ‘arrow head’ marking is present on the port side, just aft of the port starboard pom-pom mounting in 1938/9. This presumably was a warning marking for aircraft landing on prior to the fitting of arrestor wires. I believe this was white.

British Destroyer Deck Colors

by John @ WEM Thu Jun 17, 2010 (Model Warships):

Semtex/Cemtex right out of the can was grey--use Colourcoats M 16 or ACUS 02. Early war Semtex was pale buff (use ACSM 10), while late war Semtex was green (use M 19). Mid war? We just specify grey, as above. When did the change occur? Dunno--Alan Raven (who supplied the samples to Randy Short and me) never told us that....

by Michael Riddell Fri Jun 18, 2010 (Model Warships):
Semtex was probably fairly common, but not universal. Some ships had corticene - a linoleum which had a reddish brown colour to it. Some had something called "Wundergrip" - no idea what colour that was!

The only thing that appears to be a constant would be the steel decks - invariably painted in a dark colour akin to AP507A or equivalent.

If you can, get yourself a copy of "The Kelly's" by Christopher Langtree - it has a chapter on camouflage which includes details on deck coverings, but it's not comprehensive and should be viewed as a guide only.

by mike mccabe Sun Jun 20, 2010 (Model Warships):

Wondergrip? Isn't that the stuff used to keep false teeth in place?

From a modellers perspective and one who does a lot of RN destroyers, I tend to go with time period I am modelling as the best rough guide. RN camouflage is a very complex subject, made more complex by the limited photographs available of the period, especially early war. Even when you do find a photo odds on it won't show the decks, so again speaking as a modeller and not one wanting to spend too much time researching, informed guesswork is generally the order of the day.

Early war, 39 to 40 corticene was common, or strips of it over steel painted grey. Later on when the corticene was found to wear and break up under harsh conditions, it seems some decks were merely painted steel before semtex was introduced, see John's reply for the colour of that although it varied greatly. Later on mainly darker grey depending on the scheme used.

RN ships of WW2, especially destroyers, is in no way and exact science, it seems as though no one ship was ever exactly like any other in the same class, although later in the war things become a little easier.

Of course when you have decided on the colour, there is the effect of weathering, especially those serving in areas of strong sunlight.

So to sum up, and I am speaking as a modeller and preparing myself to be shot down in flames, you have quite a bit of latitude around the base colours, stick to the basic principles I have just mentioned according to the period and you won't go far wrong. At least it will be pretty difficult for anyone to prove you are!

British Western Approaches Camouflage

by John @ WEM Wed Apr 21, 2010 (Model Warships)

1942 WESTERN APPROACHES TYPE
Colors used: Western Approaches Blue, Western Approaches Green, and white.
Decks: Areas laid with wood, asphalt, semtex, or corticene, should be left in their natural colors. Steel deck areas were painted MS 2.
Athwartship vertical surfaces: White.
Countershading: Extensive use was made of countershading when Western Approaches camouflage was used. The following surfaces should have been painted white:
A. Undersides of blast shields, flag decks, boats, Pom-Pom decks, and other platforms.
B. After side of bridge.
C. Lockers, vents, davits, etc.
D. Whole of after blast screen.
E. Darken ship screens, canvas covers to reels, etc.
F. Lower 1/3 of gun barrels, searchlights, etc.
G. Both masts (if two carried), and crow’s nest.
H. Insides of gun shields.
I. All stanchions and other small fittings on deck.
The camouflage was always taken never the boot topping, down to the waterline.

1943 WESTERN APPROACHES TYPE
Colors used: B55 and white.
Decks: Steel areas are painted B30. Areas of wood, semtex, corticene, and asphalt are left their natural color.
Other horizontal surfaces: These should be painted l/2 the reflectance factor of the adjacent vertical surface color. Example: if a gun turret is painted B55, then the roof should be painted B30 (see table).
Athwartship vertical surfaces: Use same color as adjacent vertical surface except rear of bridge where white should be worn.
Countershading: The following surfaces should have been painted white:
A. Undersides of blast shields, flag decks, boats, Pom-Pom decks, and other platforms.
B. After side of bridge.
C. Lockers, vents, davits, etc.
D. Whole of after blast screen.
E. Darken ship screens, canvas covers to reels, etc.
F. Lower 1/3 of gun barrels, searchlights, etc.
G. Both masts (if two carried), and crow’s nest.
H. Insides of gun shields.
I. All stanchions and other small fittings on deck.

French Battleship Colors, 1930's

By Alain on 12/22/2011 (Steelnavy)

Between the 7 French battleships of 23500 tons there are a lot of painting differences to do depending of the date you represent a punctual model.

Firstly they are 2 classes in the same to be separated: One, the COURBET class = 4 battleships = COURBET, PARIS, JEAN BART and FRANCE which is total loss by ran on rocks in 1922. Those are coal engine. Second, the BRETAGNE class = 3 battleships = BRETAGNE, PROVENCE, LORRAINE which as completed are fuel heated.

General painting considerations:
In 1920 hulls and upperworks are more or less same but paintings differ from that date. COURBETs in a first period were painted with a blueyish medium gray said "ruled gray" officially. Black are: waterline stripe, smokestake hats, tripod mast under crow's nest, middle of back mast, main gun skirts and only JEAN BART's hawse holes and main anchors until 1925. Main turrets and casemate guns naked steel like in WW1 continue to be ragged with grease and appear dark steel. (See below for decks). Exception for some ships range finders painted white. In 1922 a HQ order gives instruction for the "ruled gray" componants probably to avoid some differences resulting between ships. On Nov.8, 1929 a ministery order decides a new paint color called "light gray #1" for ships heated with fuel but maintains the "ruled gray" for those burning coal. At last a telegram of Apr.4, 1932 orders the "light gray #1" for the whole COURBET & BRETAGNE classes and the carrier BEARN. From 1935 to 1939 the COURBETs main turrets are repainted much more lighter than hulls and upperworks in almost white. Main gun skirts are white (exception of JEAN BART still black skirts) and then skirts return black with a curious COURBET mid-39 with white ones ahead and black skirts on the 3 back turrets! Probable that white skirts covering black ones were movable only for parades and removed or not.
When the 23500 tons were sent in Atlantic for WW2 need they were repainted dark gray with a deceptive bow wave matching a speed they couldn't reach never ...

Decks: Early stayed crude steel and after 1934 painted with anti-rust paint. This color is dark gray. Back main deck and boats works covered with red linoleum. Main deck remains of all times: natural wood color. There is never black color on decks. Only casemate hull catways close of sea were painted with tar against corrosion that's why they appear black color.

Boats spardeck:
Large ones for crew and oar boats are light gray #1 all over. Oar edge: varnished wood.
Steam boats: gray like the ship overall with black waterline.
Captain's boat: blue overall (same blue like on French or US flag)
Admiral's boat: white overall with varnished hard top sometime with red lino on roof.
Seaplane gas tanks on deck poop (to be dropped out if set on fire): silver or aluminium

Different interesting floatplanes and smokestakes W&B squadron stripes code not explained here.

More especially for the PROVENCE in Mers El Kébir questioned above:
Correct paint mixing to get the "light gray #1" is 2 parts white for 1 part black. Since 1934 the ship is light gray #1 painted all over hull guns upperworks. Main deck: natural wood (no linoleum) including bow chains area. Both anchors & chains are black. No black of smoke on rear mast it is only light gray #1. Metal decks: dark gray. Bridge deck: natural wood. For black parts and boat colors: see like above. Tar on casemate catways.

In Kébir the PROVENCE's C.O. was Captain Barois and Rear Adm. Bouxin was flagged aboard. PROVENCE escapes Kébir attack July 3, 1940 and is scuttled Toulon Nov.27, 1942. Refloated for scrap in 1943 by Italians.

French WWII Warship Deck Color

by Secondo Fri Apr 23, 2010 (Steelnavy)

The drawing I found on Profile Morskie 019 on Marseillaise & Georges Leygues has the latter painted in ms. 22 with an overall blue deck. Wood planking was, according to that drawing, painted over.
This makes sense to me: the ship was refitted into a US yard and if the workers were asked to paint that thing in ms. 22, and ms. 22 stated all horizontal surfaces to be painted deck blue, well, they had to comply.

German High Seas Fleet, WWI

by John @ WEM Wed Mar 31, 2010 (Model Warships)

Battleships, Armoured and Small Cruisers (North Sea and Baltic Sea):
Superstructures, Light Grey, RAL 7035—use Colourcoats RN 03;
Hull, Agate Grey, RAL 7038—use Colourcoats KM 13 (exact match);
Boot-topping, Slate Grey, RAL 7015—use Colourcoats KM 06;
Underwater Hull, Brownish-Red, RAL 3011— use Colourcoats US 14.
Ship's Boats:
Exterior, Pure White, RAL 9010—use Colourcoats C 03;
Interior, Bright Wood—use Colourcoats US 15;
Captain's Gig, Dark Blue to Black—use Colourcoats KM 07 for Dark Blue, or C 02 for Black;
Motor Boats, Light Grey, RAL 7035— use Colourcoats RN 03;
Steam Boats, Mahogany—use Colourcoats US 15;
Deck/Linoleum, Red-Brown, RAL 8012—use Colourcoats ACSM 11;
Deck/Wood, Birch or Maple Veneer—use Colourcoats IJN 09 or C 01.

by ingura Tue Nov 10, 2009 (Model Warships)

Would like to add some thoughts to the subject of color. First a picture showing T-Boats which all (in theory) were sporting the same paintscheme "dunkelgrau ?ber alles", referring to the hull color of the capital ships. Make your choice...

Second, as pointed out earlier, the IGN did not have colors defined by the RAL-system. An participant of WW 1 serving on SMS Derfflinger gave the following explaination:

A base white color was delivered in solid blocks. These blocks were diluted in metal buckets with either gasoline, petroleum or in seldom occasions even with lubrication oil. The buckets were then put next to the part of the ship that has to be painted and under the supervision of an officer or NCO the white paint was mixed with previously grinded coal until the shade of grey matched almost the old color.

This procedere would btw. explain why the ships of the IGN appear darker and darker as the war continues. Wet paint is lighter than dried paint. So if you mix wet color to match dry paint, the appearance will be slightly different.

So my conclusion is, that one is not totally wrong if white and black paint is mixed - 9:1 for the hull and 10:1 for the superstructure. Just an idea (which works, btw.)

by ingura Wed Nov 11, 2009 Regarding the color of steel decks of WW 1 german warships:

the paint applied served two functions:

- anti-corrosion
- non-skid

The common method to achieve both things was, to prime the steel with tar and before drying (usually during the application) adding a surface layer mixed of 95 % edgy sand (0-2 mm size) plus 5 % cement. The tar protected the steel from corrosion, the surface layer provided the non-skid effect.
For tilted surfaces requesting non-skid safety, the last layer was a cotton-fabric. This happend not too often and I have found it so far on smaller units only (Minesweepers, T-Boats, Destroyers, etc.).

Naturally this mixture was sort of adhesive to dust and salt. While a fresh deckpaint looked almost black, its color changed quickly into a dark shade of grey, like antracite grey RAL 7016.
For some ships I saw reports stating that the application itself and the non-skid effect was even better, if sand and cement were mixed with the tar prior to the application.

This btw. explains also why on german capital ships of WW 1 some areas (those, where the officers were doing their duty) were covered with linoleum - tar underneath your shoes would spoil the carpets in their cabins and messes...

Japanese CV Shinano Deck Color

by Paolo (SMML Archives: http://smmlonline.com/archives/VOL2885.txt)

Actually the color of the flight deck is well attested by several eye witnesses, either former crewmen or civilian workers. It was....(drum roll...it'll be quite a shocker)...PINK!! (Look at the box art of the first Tamiya kit, they got it right...) Yes, that's right, when she was sunk the flight deck hadn't been painted yet and we don't know how it would be painted. Red-brown crushed bricks were applied to the flight deck to create a non-skid surface and they were bonded with a white adhesive, resulting in a pinkish deck. Obviously they would have painted that before she entered service but like I said there is no way to know what color.

As for you question, yes, I believe her flight deck would be camouflaged- just like that of almost any other carrier at that time - but probably not like Zuikaku or Zuiho's. In 1945 IJN's surviving carriers were mostly concerned with the frequent bomber raids on Japan's major harbors and the camouflage on their flight decks was meant to blend with the surrounding environment (hills, trees, water etc.) rather than to simulate the appearance of a surface combatant (like Zuikaku's flight deck), which would have also been a great target.

There were several articles citing this fact on the Japanese model press. The guy who originally made the claim (can't remember his name now) is (was? might be dead now...) a multi-millionaire who made a fortune in the construction business and was a civilian worker on the Shinano in 1944. Initially in Japan some people bought his story and some didn't (the argument is as old as the first Tamiya kit) but eventually a few other eye-witnesses came out confirming his story. I can't give you precise book/magazine references because it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack, but I'm sure that the Gakken book on the Shinano (which unfortunately I don't have) has this story. The reason why no Japanese has ever modeled the pink deck is pretty obvious, they're too proud of their IJN and would never show anything "embarrassing" like that (and that explains why the guy who first told the story was the object of real anger...) In fact I've never seen a model of the Shinano without aircraft on deck, which is another historical falsehood. For the record, all models of the Shinano I've seen in Japan have a gray deck.

If I were you, I would just write the story on an accompanying piece of paper with a color copy of the box art of the first Tamiya kit. I think that'll be more than sufficient for the IPMS guys, who can barely distinguish the Shinano from the Hiyo and usually mispronounce both of them... It is interesting to note that while the guy who painted the art of the first Tamiya kit obviously believed the story, Tamiya had a very prudent approach, recommending a gray deck in the instructions. So, they had it both ways...

Russian Sverdlov Class

Posted by Alain on 5/27/2010 (Steelnavy)

Earlier in fifties, sixties and seventies begining all the SVERDLOV class looks wooden main deck definitely. Plank deck is very pale at sunlight on SENJAVIN, ZHDANOV(next MURMANSK), DZERZINSKI, OCTOBER REVOLUTSIYA(ex-MOLOTOVSK), SVERDLOV, KUTUZOV, SUVOROV. No need to check ORDZONIKIDZE, NAKHIMOV, NEVSKIJ, LAZAREV, POZARSKIJ, USHAKOV, DONSKOI, MININ (some ones uncompleted) remaining sisters certainly same colour.
The main deck right colour should be LIGHT OCHRE looking like LIGHT SAND that Humbrol calls "CONCRETE" (91 or 90 if I remember well).

Later from middle seventies one sees some SVERDLOV class with a darker main deck whereas sisters keep the CONCRETE colour till end f service about eighties. Mention of dark main deck on SVERDLOV in 72, SENJAVIN in 74, ZHDANOV 72, USHAKOV 73 and a curious MURMANSK between 79/81 bearing forward main deck lighter than backard which is dark. All these after conversion. After question and doubt if some wooden deck were not removed assuming that main deck were heavily armoured originally, close up exam shows that plank deck are still in place after conversion either it is. Seventies are Cold War period in accordance when modern metallic decks were painted RED/ORANGE. So,teck deck of surviving SVERDLOVs couldn't be else that painted this clour to wear this dark effect.
To get a correct reflectance on a painted teck deck colour would be REDDISH MAHOGANY to me.

In all case metallic upper decks are darker than main deck. Until mid seventies they would be DARK GREY or a close DARK GREEN. After 75 they should be usual Soviet RED/ORANGE.

Congratulation for your attention when ships looked like ships not like shoes box of now :-) The SVERDLOVs of Italian inspiration are splendid.


U.S. Army Transport (USAT) Colors

by Tracy White, Mon Oct 04, 2010 (Model Warships)

I don't have complete documentation, but I know that some USAT vessels were COMPLETED in Navy colors as new construction. Ones already in service I would be more suspicious about as the Navy was protective of their formulas and did not let them out to commercial paint manufacturers until the start of 1943; prior to that Mare Island and Norfolk were the only places officially manufacturing USN Colors.

Now, the US Navy Bureau of Ordnance *DID* share formulas they had copies with with their army counterparts, which BuShips was not happy about when they found out about it. However, I have no documentation that details what company received the formulas and for what purposes, just some correspondence from BuShips to BuOrd stating they had been receiving complaints from the paint manufacturers that did not get the formulas and that they shouldn't have sent out the formulas. My guess is that they were shared for pieces of ordnance that both services used or army units that were being shipped on Navy transports. Ocean Gray was the default color for newly manufactured ordnance as that was the most common color for the zone (I.e. superstructure in Measure 12/22) they were in in 1942 before the Pacific fleet standardized on Measure 21.


U.S. BB Arizona Dec 7, 1941 color debate BB39 color explanation from survivor (the final word?)!

Posted by Andrew D BB39 Sec on December 4, 2010 (Steelnavy)

THE SHORT VERSION: Arizona may very well have had an incomplete painting, which some photos seem to suggest.

THE FULL VERSION:
This could be starting to make more sense. I mean, there's plenty of evidence on both sides, so confusing. And making it even weightier for me personally is that despite some evidence suggesting the other possibility, EVERY survivor I know who was aboard in early November '41 remembers painting a very light blue over the dark gray.

SO, tonight I talked a while with Lauren Bruner. He was one of the miracle survivors from the portside AA director on the foremast, one of 4 who made it hand over hand down a line to the Vestal, along with Don Stratton. Last year he was with the others remembering how the new, lighter paint was being craned aboard in cargo nets and then passed down to all hands while they were finishing their drydock time following the collision with the Okie.

Conversation tonight was something like this:

Me: So the new paint was lighter than the previous color?

Bruner: Oh, yeah, a lot lighter. The older stuff from the summer, the gunmetal paint (5D) was so dark, and the new stuff was so damned transparent it was tough.

Me: You mean the blue was translucent, and you could see the old color through it?

Bruner: Yeah, at first, it took a while. Stuff seemed to blend with the sea, and the sky, until you couldn't tell one from the other.(wasn't totally sure what he meant by it, but it was clear he wasn't a huge fan of the new stuff)

Me: You know, now that you mention it, there are some folks who think that, judging from the photos of the ship once the fires went out, that there were actually areas where the old dark gray was showing. Any chance the painting wasn't finished yet?

Bruner: Oh, no, it was never finished.

Me: (stunned) So, the masts were never finished?

Bruner: No, didn't get to them. We started at the bottom and worked our way up.

Me: So you did the hull and the turrets and the bridge area, then?

Bruner: No, not even the bridge. That was next. That was my area, and I know we didn't get that far.

Me: So just the hull and turrets?

Bruner: Just hull and turrets.

Me: How about the area around the five inch casemates?

Bruner: (paused, thinking) I don't know about those, I wasn't part of that detail. But the rest of it, definitely.

Me: Was the new color supposed to color the white mast tops?

Bruner: (chuckling) Oh, I don't know; they didn't tell me that.

CONCLUSION: I know Tracy had pondered this very possibility, and now it seems to make more sense.

So IF THIS IS AT ALL TRUE, we could be dealing with an Arizona with 5S hull and turrets, weathered 5D bridge and stack structures and masts and probably casemates and spud locker areas, and 5L mast tops. Actually a really neat thought!!!

Posted by Tracy White on August 10, 2010 (Steelnavy)

: Curious, is it possible there might be one or
: two Arizona vets from that period around or
: even from one of the other battleships who
: could be queried about the colour scheme.
: Certainly if the turret tops were red
: someone might know that.

Glenn Lane, who was one of the aviators on Arizona, spoke of the blue and referred to it as "Mediterranean Blue" as well as the red turret tops. This caused much confusion and negativity as the USN never had a Mediterranean Blue. Don Preul showed him some paint chips sans names and he picked out a shade of 5-S Sea Blue; this is one of the pieces of evidence to support the Blue Arizona theory (as well as the red turret tops, which he also spoke of). It means beans to many people.

Posted by Andrew D. BB39 Secon August 11, 2010 (Steelnavy)

I can tell you the survivors argue on the red tops to this day, but one compelling bit of evidence is that ALL THREE survivors from the Air Division (Glenn Lane, Milton Hurst, Ed Wentzlaff) clearly recall the red tops. This is important because the red was for the airmen, to help identify which ship to land by, same concept as avoiding landing on the wrong carrier. Arizona operated with Okie and Nevada, very similar ships at a glance under various weather and lighting conditions.

Posted by Andrew D BB39 SEcon August 11, 2010

I do need to throw this into the mix; I talked about this at the last survivors' reunion. The November '41 photo in drydock is when she was repaired from the collision with the Oklahoma in late October. THEY ALL STATE that a complete repaint began in the very final days in drydock, and THEY ALL STATE without debate that it was a much lighter color that they were using.

I still remember Don Stratton turning to Bruner and saying "Yeah, remember, they were hauling all those 5-gallon buckets up with cargo nets..." and Bruner was nodding the whole time. Clare Hetrick said, "They even brought out all us mess cooks to start slopping it on. They were passing it down to where we were in opened 2-gallon cans they were pouring."

Even more compelling on the lighter color, Lonnie Cook says he and his buddies were to do some decks on the superstructure, and couldn't go on liberty until it was done; they slopped it on with a mop, so it was too thick to dry uniformly. The next day the area was hosed off and a bunch of it came off in sheets; BOY, he says they got a royal chewing-out.

Posted by Jon Warneke on August 9, 2010 (Steelnavy)

Approximately May 1941, Pacific Fleet began to repaint from pre-war schemes into the Measure 1 through 5 schemes. These used the January 1941 SHIPS-2 colors. It is known that at some point in the late summer-early fall of 1941, ARIZONA is photographically shown to be painted in a Measure 1 scheme (black and white photos). Now, this is where the two arguments begin to intermix. On October 15, 1941, an order was issued that the blue proponents claim allowed ARIZONA to be painted into a blue scheme, 15-CN41. However, when you read the actual order (which is on Tracy's site), the order is an authorization to begin experimentation with the new Sept. 1941 colors on one destroyer squadron. The citation for the use of the blue colors on other ships is in one of the later paragraphs (9, I think), but there is a direct restriction of the use of blue, as well as specific instructions for it's use if the restrictions are met.

Tracy has found some interesting orders for the use of blue prior to the issuance of 15-CN41, but other than one that specifically references ARIZONA and her requisition for more 5-D, there's nothing written for the replacement of 5-D with 5-S in Measure 1. In fact, Measure 1 is discontinued for use in the Sept. 1941 SHIPS-2, which authorizes the use of the blue colors in question.

Here the main gist of the gray argument as I see it. Photos on 7 DEC 41 show ARIZONA painted in Measure 1. The only colors presently documented for use in Measure 1 are 5-L and 5-D, and according to 15-CN41, the use of 5-S requires the Measure 1A (later known as Measure 11) to be used. Now you have both encapsulated arguments.

U.S. Civil War Monitor Colors

Posted by John Emery on August 11, 2010 (Steelnavy)

Unique among the monitors, the Nahant had a black band around the turret level with the gun ports, with the rest of the turret unpainted. After 1863, white zinc was widely used on the monitor fleet, especially on the underwater hull, although the Suncook had a snow white turret. The Nahant was built in Boston and sailed to the Brooklyn Navy Yard. Here is my citation on the black band around her turret.
New York Times
Jan 19, 1863

"On her arrival here, a most awkward blunder was discovered by the authorities in connection with the turret. The ports in all the iron-clads have been purposely kept colorless, in order that they should not present a shining mark to the enemy. The Boston people, however, painted them black, thus rendering them exceedingly conspicuous. The officers of the Brooklyn Yard were then obliged to paint an entire black band around the turret, which covers the ports. Thus the Nahant will easily be known from all the craft of her class."

Underwater Hull/Boot Topping Colors

Posted by Shaun Carter on September 1, 2010 (Steelnavy)

The colors of hull paint are most likely related to the type of anti-fouling agent used. I believe that Green paint contained copper. Red paint usually contained lead. Protecting the hull of the ship from marine growth and damage from sea creatures has been a problem since the invention of boats. The copper plates used to sheath the USS Constitution were meant to protect her wooden hull and stop performance destroying marine growth. There isn't one perfect answer. Anti-fouling paints use two methods. One, is to leach out a compound or compounds that are toxic. This means that the paint will 'wear out' without necessarily being worn out. The other is to make a surface so smooth, that nothing can attach to it. This seems to be the modern answer.

I believe that one anti-fouling agent, say copper, cannot protect a ship in all oceans. There was also the questions of cost, availability and paint technology. The RN was quite interested in the new American hull paints during WW II partly because they were thought to last longer than RN paints. The search still continues today. Just look at the blue hull paints in use by Canada and being tested by the USN.

As far as Boot Topping goes, some Navy's used a distinct color for it and some did not. Boot Topping has three jobs. One, it is a heavier duty paint to protect the hull against the increased corrosion present at the waterline. Two, to hide stains from pollution. And three, to indicate the operating draft range. It usually does not have the same anti-fouling properties of hull paint. Some navies did not seem to use it, but I believe that the upper portion of the hull paint was in fact a heavy duty version of the hull paint, just not a different color.

Posted by Tom Ruprechton September 1, 2010 (Steelnavy)

I recently purchased the Kagero Varyag book with the CGI renderings, which depict the ship with a green hull below the waterline. I have been under the impression that A-H ships used such a green, but I don't know why or even whether that is valid. I have not had any idea that Imperial Russian ships used green, but it sure looks nice.

Posted by John Emery on September 1, 2010 (Steelnavy)

The Alabama, a near contemporary of the Varyag, also built by Cramp's, was built with a green hull below the waterline. Normally, US warships had the traditional red; primer was brown. [citation: New York Times, May 27, 1898. "...and her hull below the waterline will be covered with a heavy coat of green submarine paint."]

Posted by Al Rosson September 1, 2010 (Steelnavy)

When I was researching the MAINE for the kit I was designing for BlueJacket, I came across some interesting material relating to bottom paint at the end of the 19th Century. A discussion with Dana Wegner, curator of ship models for the Navy, indicated that MAINE received green bottom paint at her final overhaul. In a dissertation by Darien Andreu (FSU - 2003) which focused on a journalist of the period, Sylvester Scovel, she writes that MAINE left Norfolk drydock on 9 DEC 1897 with McGinnis' green anti-fouling paint. Scovel, present at the raising of the MAINE in 1912, is quoted as commenting on the green bottom of the hulk.

Obviously, MAINE was not a Russian ship, but this does indicate that green was indeed used as a bottom color on some ships of the period.

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DESIGN & TECHNOLOGY

British Armed Merchant Cruisers Dunvegan Castle & Dunnotar Castle

by Richard Osborne on 8/6/2010 (Dockside)

Both DUNVEGAN CASTLE and DUNNOTTAR CASTLE were armed with seven single 6-inch guns and two single 12 pdr guns.

I have never seen a picture of either ship as an AMC (although I do have a close-up picture of DUNNOTTAR CASTLE showing collision damage in late 1940). The most likely arrangement is four single 6-inch forward (arranged to port & starboard as in CARNARVON CASTLE) with a further pair arranged to port & starboard aft plus a single 6-inch gun on the poop. The single 12pdr guns would most likely have been to port and starboard at the after end of the main superstructure.

British Fishing Vessels

by Dick on 7/27/2010 (Dockside)

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010, Roger Dawson wrote:
In the 1930s, steam "drifters" were the mainstay of the herring fleets. Fishermen were quite conservative and coal-fired steam guarenteed a fair turn of speed to return the catch quickly to port. Herring fishing used seine nets, a long line of vertical netting streamed astern of the ship hanging from (glass) floats at the upper edge. The enormous drag meant that the boat could only move slowly and to all intents they were stationary in the water when fishing. to keep the boats head to wind, they carried a small mizzen sail, usually painted red oxide. During WW2, many were pressed into naval service and those that were not sunk were returned after the war. This means that in the period that you are interested in, there would be some of these ships in service and I still make the Marine Artist Models steam trawler/drifter as part of the Coastlines range and Deep C makes one called "Peggy". Llyn Models has also made fishing vessels but I don't think any are available new now.

During the war, many navies built more "trawlers" (the boats were the same, the gear differed) for coastal duties and, after the war, many were bought up by the fishing industry. Neptun make a "Vorposten Boat" and Clydeside and Santa Rosa made Isles class, Round Table class, Lady class etc and these can all be civilianised for variety in the post war fleet. Trident also made grey ships of this type. Many steam trawlers were dieselised during this time and if you fit a shorter, fatter funnel to the 1930s boats, you have more variety!!

By the mid 1950s the herring stocks had been decimated, so larger vessels that could be used out into the Atlantic when the herring season was over were coming in to service and many of these were used later as off shore support and safety vessels or for fishery research (eg Albatros "Anton Dohrn", Llyn Model's "Boston Fury" and a Coastlines/MAM sidewinder trawler).

By the 1960s, stern trawlers were becoming the norm and some of the Albatros fishery research ships are suitable from 1970s to the present. Rhenania Junior used to make "Prince Madoc" and I make a "Peterhead" fishing boat, both of which are smaller types seen in the North Sea today, although Eastern Block ships and Norwegian and Spanish ships monopolise the larger vessels seen around European waters.

I hope that this will give you some insight as to what models to look for but, as Ulrich says, small ships mean small sales and even smaller profits. Matti Broecher's Prince Madoc mould has broken and he won't make it again despite the ship being used in the TV "Coast" series. My own new 2010 model "Steve Irwin" (ex-Robert Hunter, ex-Westray - Scottish Fisheries protection ship) has only sold 4 models in 6 months despite featuring in the "Whale Wars" TV series.

USN LINOLEUM DECK COVERING

from Wikipedia:

The heavier gauges of linoleum are known as "battleship linoleum", and are mainly used in high-traffic situations like offices and public buildings. It was originally manufactured to meet the specifications of the U.S. Navy for warship deck covering on enclosed decks instead of wood, hence the name. Most U.S. Navy warships in fact removed their linoleum deck coverings following the attack on Pearl Harbor, as they were considered too flammable. (Use of linoleum persisted in U.S. Navy submarines, however. Royal Navy warships used the similar product "Corticine".

by Russ2146 on Fri Oct 15, 2010 (Steelnavy)

It's a felt saturated with a petroleum based substance. It could be tinted and embossed. It is related to oil cloth. It's most common use was as a water resistant decorative floor covering in the home. You could make in a solid color or have it look like a rug, but with no pile. It is the predecessor of the modern sheet vinyl used for kitchen and bath floor coverings.